Posts by Trevor Scott

3

Who is the "Christ class"?

by cameo-d in

and who gets to decide who belongs in christ class?.

what is identifying characteristics of the "christ class"?.

Trevor Scott

Ah yes, the "Christ Class". One of Russell's core doctrines was that "The Christ" was not Jesus, but Jesus plus the 144,000 "anointed":

The word Christ signifies anointed. Anointing means designation to official position in God’s arrangement. The Christ is the instrument or channel for the blessing of mankind. The Christ is composed of Jesus, the great and mighty head, and 144,000 members. --The Harp of God, 1921, p 187

You don't find such explicit reference to this view in current Watchtower writings, no doubt on account of Matt 24:4,5,24:

Jesus answered: "Watch out that no one deceives you. For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the Christ,' and will deceive many.
For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible.

Nowadays the doctrine is couched using less direct terminology. While no longer directly referred to as "The Christ", the 144,000 are still referred to as "anointed" (the Greek "Khristós", Christ, literally means "anointed"). And the 144,000 are still said to be "co-rulers" with Christ, "associate kings and priests", etc, who will, along with Christ, restore the rest of mankind to perfection:

*** w67 7/15 p. 447 The Removal of Mankind’s Chief Disturber ***
Christ and his 144,000 associate kings and priests will minister to mankind and raise them up from the imperfect state in which desires of the flesh have such a hold upon them.
*** w85 12/1 p. 17 par. 17 Declared Righteous as a Friend of God ***
During the Millennium, the enthroned Lamb, Christ Jesus, together with his 144,000 associate kings and priests, will apply a program of spiritual and physical “curing of the nations.”
*** w87 7/1 p. 24 par. 13 Divine Blessings for “the Ones Having Insight” ***
When, by the end of the Thousand Year Reign, Jesus and his 144,000 associate kings and priests have restored faithful humans to perfection, they will indeed have brought “many to righteousness.”
*** w07 9/1 p. 20 Highlights From the Book of Daniel ***
The anointed will ‘shine like the stars’ in the fullest sense during the Millennial Rule of Christ, when they share with him in applying the full benefits of the ransom to obedient mankind on earth.

8

JW's don't know their own faith

by wobble in

jw
friends

i think this may well have been done to death before,but it still surprised me to find it so close to home.. i t has been pointed out that many jw's can't explain their doctrines,but i never thought that would apply to my sister.she is a super-culty dub,in for over sixty years,and during a somewhat heated conversation at the weekend she kept throwing things at me as "trooves" and i had to keep saying "you need to research that".

for example i told her that according to the wt jesus was only the mediator for the 144,000. she did not agree that was wt teaching,so i just said the above.. it amazes me that i will have to educate her,ex-pioneer and great door-knocker,as to what she is supposed to believe,before i show her the errors,if we ever get down to a proper discussion.

i don't really want to though,i think she and her husband need and deserve the borg.. are you surprised at the ignorance of thir own religion by witnessses,despite all those meetings and hours of study?.

Trevor Scott

Wobble,

I've come to the same realization over the years. At first I was surprised, but knowing the religion as I do now, it makes perfect sense. For all intents and purposes, a JW's salvation boils down to accepting the Governing Body as God's channel and then 'meekly following along'.

Specifically with regard to the mediatorship of Christ, in my experience, *most* JWs do not realize that as part of the "great crowd" they do not have Christ as a mediator. This is downright scary for anyone who professes to be Christian, for being Christian *means* having Christ as your mediator.

A mediator is a go-between, a negotiator, a link between two parties:

me·di·a·tor
n.

One that mediates, especially one that reconciles differences between disputants.

mediator

a negotiator who acts as a link between parties

According to scripture, there is only one valid mediator: "For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus."

Jesus is recorded as saying the same thing: "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

No one.

According to WT doctrine, JWs are saved, not by having Christ as their mediator, but by associating with the Watchtower Society; by how they "treat" those special "anointed" Christians, "Christ's brothers", who run the religion:

*** w69 8/15 p. 486 Christ’s Return—What Does It Mean for You? ***

It is particularly in regard to Christ’s present judging work that his return is full of meaning for you and all others living at this time. As Jesus went on to show, all mankind today is being judged by their attitude and course of action toward Christ’s brothers, the anointed footstep followers of Jesus Christ, of whom a “remnant” are still upon earth. These and their dedicated companions are sharing in the fulfillment of the prophecy of Jesus: “This good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.”—Matt. 24:14.

Jesus’ anointed followers are serving in his stead. (2 Cor. 5:20) He therefore counts what is done to them as done to him. (Acts 9:5) So, those who treat with kindness Christ’s followers, who take their stand with them, are counted as doing these things to Jesus himself, even as he said in his parable: “Truly I say to you, To the extent that you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.”—Matt. 25:40.

Since this work of dividing the “sheep” and “goats” is going on under the direction of Jesus Christ, his return by directing his attention to the affairs of earth is of the greatest importance and meaning to all upon earth. Your destiny, as well as that of all persons now living, is fixed by the course of action taken toward Christ’s followers. There is no middle ground.

The Bible says in regard to Jesus that "Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved." Yet for Jehovah's Witnesses, it is a fact that there is another name by which they must get saved.

Trevor.

20

BEST VIDEO ON JWS

by badboy in

jw
friends

any nominations?.

.

Trevor Scott

::Elder committing perjury in court, on tape.

alamb, that is awesome! Never seen that one before..

Trevor.

17

In need of some help with quote gathering

by Eyes Open in

it's a long story, but i've spent days and days solid writing and quoting for a very important letter, and i could do with some help from anyone who knows their way around wt stuff as i'm out of time.. i need to quote, preferably without any extra comment, wt stuff that shows circular "new light" or flip-flopping.

generation?

other central doctrine?.

Trevor Scott

::Also need to respond to 'only JW's glorify Jehovah's name'.

I typically make the point that "Jehovah" is not and never was God's name, so the JW's obsession with the word is really inconsequential. Many dictionaries correctly point out that "Jehovah" is simply a made up word, being the transliteration of the Tetragramaton (YHWH) using vowel points from a completely different word. Imagine stripping all the vowels out of your name and replacing them with vowels from some other word. Would it still be your name?

Jehovah
1530, Tyndale's erroneous transliteration of Heb. Tetragramaton YHWH, using vowel points of Adhonai "my lord" (see Yahweh). Used for YHWH (the full name being too sacred for utterance) in four places in the Old Testament in the K.J.V. where the usual translation lord would have been inconvenient; taken as the principal and personal name of God. The vowel substitution was originally made by the Masoretes as a direction to substitute Adhonai for "the ineffable name." European students of Heb. took this literally, which yielded L. JeHoVa (first attested in writings of Galatinus, 1516). Jehovah's Witnesses "member of Watchtower Bible and Tract Society" first attested 1933; the organization founded c.1879 by Charles Taze Russell (1852-1916); the name from Isa. xliii:10.

"Jehovah." Online Etymology Dictionary. Douglas Harper, Historian.

20

BEST VIDEO ON JWS

by badboy in

jw
friends

any nominations?.

.

Trevor Scott

Just remembered this one. Who needs college anyway?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciZlsMWkFiU

20

BEST VIDEO ON JWS

by badboy in

jw
friends

any nominations?.

.

Trevor Scott

Stay alive 'til 75......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIEZx74P5ck

17

In need of some help with quote gathering

by Eyes Open in

it's a long story, but i've spent days and days solid writing and quoting for a very important letter, and i could do with some help from anyone who knows their way around wt stuff as i'm out of time.. i need to quote, preferably without any extra comment, wt stuff that shows circular "new light" or flip-flopping.

generation?

other central doctrine?.

Trevor Scott

::concrete examples of the WT saying only JW's will survive armageddon.

*** w89 9/1 p. 19 par. 7 Remaining Organized for Survival Into the Millennium ***

Only Jehovah’s Witnesses, those of the anointed remnant and the “great crowd,” as a united organization under the protection of the Supreme Organizer, have any Scriptural hope of surviving the impending end of this doomed system dominated by Satan the Devil.

*** w83 2/15 p. 12 You Can Live Forever in Paradise on Earth—But How? ***

Similarly, Jehovah is using only one organization today to accomplish his will. To receive everlasting life in the earthly Paradise we must identify that organization and serve God as part of it.

Trevor.

17

In need of some help with quote gathering

by Eyes Open in

it's a long story, but i've spent days and days solid writing and quoting for a very important letter, and i could do with some help from anyone who knows their way around wt stuff as i'm out of time.. i need to quote, preferably without any extra comment, wt stuff that shows circular "new light" or flip-flopping.

generation?

other central doctrine?.

Trevor Scott

I wrote an article a couple years ago that discussed the Society's doctrinal flip-flopping. Specifically, their position on the "higher powers" ("superior authorities") and the parable of the sheep and the goats. In both cases, the Society abandoned a doctrine that they had ALREADY CLAIMED CAME FROM GOD AS "NEW LIGHT" and went back to a doctrine they had ALREADY DEBUNKED AS FALSE.

The Society's doctrinal flip-flopping is contrasted with their claim that they have not gone back to previous points of view:

*** w81 12/1 p. 27 par. 2 The Path of the Righteous Does Keep Getting Brighter ***

At times explanations given by Jehovah’s visible organization have shown adjustments, seemingly to previous points of view. But this has not actually been the case.

http://www.geocities.com/thewatchtowerstudy/tacking.htm

Trevor.

7

Timing Christ's Presence

by Ultimate Reality in

startfragment.

obviously, this is an ongoing discussion.

in a past post (which was so popular, there were 0 replies) i mentioned a book by james stewart russell: the parousia: the new testament doctrine of our lord's second coming, which was written in 1878. the book is a discussion of the new testament as it relates to the subject of the parousia or christ's presence.

Trevor Scott

Interesting indeed. Thank you for posting.

24

Could the "Memorial" night and number of partakers be all fake?

by RULES & REGULATIONS in

faithful and discreet slave, a distinct class of people comprising the remaining ones of the 'anointed[1]' 144,000[2], or "the remnant"[3] that is "appointed over" others to "give them their food at the proper time", based on their interpretation of matthew 24:45 ("a faithful and wise servant" kjv).. .

each year at the annual "memorial" only the anointed class of members partake of the emblems.

everyone else is an observer.. did you ever think that the memorial is only a display to keep their authority over the rank and file ?

Trevor Scott

I don't believe the published number of partakers is accurate. The number went down previously because the Watchtower Society wanted the number to go down, because it provided them with some "evidence" for the nearness of the end. Now the number is going up because the Society WANTS it to go up. Why? One possibility is that artificially raising the number of partakers provides the WTS with a means of doing away with the 1935 cutoff year for anointed.

Given the fact that the Governing Body knows full well their prophesied "end" is NOT just around the corner, they needed to do away with the 1935 year. If they didn't get rid of the 1935 cutoff they'd eventually run out of anointed in the same way that they ran out of the "1914 generation". Running out of anointed means no more "faithful and discreet slave", and where is that concept in their end-time doctrine? The entire Watchtower religion/publishing company is built on the foundation of the chosen "faithful and discreet slave". No memorial partakers means no slave means no governing body means no Watchtower religion.

When the 1914 generation dwindled to the point of no return, the WTS dumped the date. The 1935 generation has approached the same point. By artificially raising the number of partakers, the Society can then point at the increase in partakers as "evidence" that 1935 was not the cutoff after all. Note:

*** w07 5/1 pp. 30-31 Questions From Readers ***

Hence, especially after 1966 it was believed that the heavenly call ceased in 1935. This seemed to be confirmed when almost all who were baptized after 1935 felt that they had the earthly hope. Thereafter, any called to the heavenly hope were believed to be replacements for anointed Christians who had proved unfaithful. Without a doubt, if one of the anointed unrepentantly falls away, Jehovah does call another individual to take his place. (Romans 11:17-22) However, the number of genuine anointed ones who have become unfaithful is likely not large. On the other hand, as time has gone by, some Christians baptized after 1935 have had witness borne to them that they have the heavenly hope. (Romans 8:16, 17) Thus, it appears that we cannot set a specific date for when the calling of Christians to the heavenly hope ends.

So the Society points to the (artificial) increase in partakers as evidence that the calling of anointed did not end in 1935: "Thus, it appears that we cannot set a specific date for when the calling of Christians to the heavenly hope ends." This opens the door for more anointed, which extends the collective lifetime of the "faithful and discreet slave" and by extension the governing body.

My two cents.

Trevor.